When Obama’s Words Mean Nothing

In January 2011, President Obama spoke at a memorial service in Tucson, Arizona to honor the victims of a massacre that left 6 people dead, including a federal judge and a 9 year-old girl and left 13 others wounded, including Congresswoman Gabby Giffords who suffered a grievous gunshot wound to the head.

Liberals, including the editorial writers at the New York Times, were quick to link the mayhem to conservative hate speech, even though it turned out that the gunman was a mentally unstable young man who by all accounts had no interest in politics of any kind.

The president, doing his best to keep politics and partisanship out of his talk, was eloquent, as he called for civility and decency in our national conversation.

“But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized,” he said, “at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do – it’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.”

He also said, “Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.”

Some of us were naïve enough to believe he meant it.  And maybe he did.  Then.

The other day, just before the Michigan legislature voted in a new right-to-work law that infuriated labor leaders, a state Democratic Representative, speaking on the House floor, said, “There will be blood, there will be repercussions.”

“There will be blood.” Was that just an unfortunate figure of speech?  Or was it the kind of angry language that President Obama had warned us against?  Whichever it was, Mr. Obama, who opposed the Michigan legislation, which he deemed anti-union, said nothing about this incivility.  If he was worried about where that kind of bloody rhetoric might lead, he wasn’t sharing it with the American people.

Then, right after the vote, Teamsters president Jimmy Hoffa told CNN that, “This is just the first round of a battle that’s going to divide this state. We’re going to have a civil war.”

By the way, this was the same Jimmy Hoffa who, during a campaign rally in Detroit this year, said his union was ready to “go to war” for the president and “take out these son of a bitches” who oppose Mr. Obama and Big Labor.

When the president came on stage, he said nothing about the tone or the incivility of his friend, Mr. Hoffa.

Meanwhile, at the state capital in Lansing, union thugs, in between dropping F-bombs at a rally protesting the new law, repeatedly punched a conservative supporter of the law in the face, while another man threatened to kill him with a gun.

So far, the president has said nothing about this incident, either — perhaps because these were goons who helped get him re-elected last month.

Let’s remember what President Obama said in Tucson.  “But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized, at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do – it’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.”

Whatever else one may think of this president, he’s good with words.  Even when that’s all they are – empty, meaningless words.

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  • jazzdrums

    the only thing missing with obama is the bow tie….as a community organizer he could guarantee the neighborhoods behavior in exchange for whatever those needing go along get along necessary…worst than himself is his spouse who enjoys the elitist life and has to bite the bullet to avoid gaffs…gaffs of course are really what one thinks.

  • ERNEST P SUGGINNS

    EVERY DAY, ANYTHING ON BENGHAZI, OR FAST & FURIOUS? NO

  • EARNST P SUGGINS BR549

    WHEN, MEAN NOTHING ? ALWAYS !

  • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

    To the unbiased Bern': why not, esp. at this time of year, call the President, “the President” instead of….”Obama”?? :)

  • EARNST P SUGGINS BR549

    HIS WORDS MEAN NOTHING, AS DOES HE.

  • Takincareofbusiness

    Divide & conquer. This has been Little o’s modus operandi from the beginning.

  • OldDog

    Jimmy Hoffa, Sr. and Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. Like Father, like son. And I am old enough to remember Sr.

  • kayakbob

    I have learned – both through media and first hand – that when liberals lament a lack of “tolerance for other views” what they mean is the lack tolerance for their views.

    However, any view not held by liberals is pretty much fair game for any comment that anybody cares to make, and the more caustic the better.

    So-called tolerance is a one way street.

  • noname

    I hate liberals with every bone in my body. They are not human and I trust them as much as rapists, atheists, and Muslims which is not at all.

  • Swithlight13

    “All those who are polluting the public airwaves with the usual talking points about gun control and government solutions dishonor the dead and themselves. This is not a time for political noise. It’s a time for compassion and introspection”….Michelle Malkin

  • Randy

    “But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized, at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do – it’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.”
    In a way that heals = what I want you to say.
    Those who think differently than we do = you don’t think the way I think so you are therefore wrong.
    Discourse has become so sharply polarized = you dare to disagree with me so you are polarizing.
    We are fat too eager to lay the ballme for all that ails the world –> at the feet of the conservative republicans that dare to think differently than we do and disagree with my royal hind*ss.

  • EddieD_Boston

    Hit the nail on the head Bernie. It’s amazing liberals don’t see it as it plainly is.

  • mnsunshine

    unfortunately, this is how the majority of Obama’s supporters talk. Ugly!

  • FloridaJim

    Obama has become known for “meaningless” words. His media never holds him accountable anymore than anyone ever has held him accountable. The “tearing” of him over the Connecticut school did not seem real, to me. I was crying more than he, perhaps do to my age. We will hear more of this tragedy and listen to the lamestream media berate anyone with whom they disagree

  • Lenny

    I could not listen to Obama. He has done nothing but divide this country for almost 4 years. He has instigated more hate and violence. He has used the unions, as he did in MI, to riot. His tears were fake. We are in a moral crisis and he has blood shed on his hands!

  • http://www.facebook.com/walter.mattson.39 Walter Mattson

    Right on Bernie. Obama is the wolf in sheep clothing. He does all things by the use of empty words that will uplift his minions and the uninformed voters. Many to most of his statements he doesn’t really believe but he knows that they will give him mileage. He is the ultimate campaigner. He never lets a crisis go to waste. He will use the present school shootings to push though gun control by signing the UN treaty on guns. It will be one step closer to the confiscation of guns for all citizens.

  • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

    Considering the depth of tghis tragedy why do you even hint that the President doesn’t *mean* what he says. Reminds of me of Sarah P. expressing no sympathy for Giffords just saying that her “reload” trash rhetoric had nothing to do with it. But, nice goin’ Bern’…..get your weekly pat on the head by Mr. Ailes.

    • Switchlight13

      Guess you were touched by his fake crocodile tears. You can always tell a phoney when they wipe away invisible tears. He is a great actor.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1560111594 Robert Blum

    One of the sound reasons why the word ‘hypocrite’ originated during the earlier years of mankind is due to shameless individuals boldly embracing the character trait without being held accountable for their words and deeds.

  • Mari Jo O’Neill

    Obama =’s words are just for show. The Union thugs showed exactly what they were in Lansing Michigan. If you have a view that is in opposition to the left wing liberals they resort to name calling & most of all violence. How about the elderly black man that was there just selling hot dogs??? They pushed his cart down and destroyed the food he was there to sell and not one “left wing media idiot: talked about that on any of the news shows. These people are pathetic and it shows.

  • Switchlight13

    Update: Obama fakes crying at news conference. Wipes away invisible tears. This guy should get an Oscar. Makes veiled reference to future gun control as expected.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YMJUHF4UNZWSLIDRXPSSTOHA3Q Shane

    Of course, Obama didn’t mean it. Obama meant that conservatives should shut their mouths if they don’t have anything nice to say about liberals. But he wanted liberals to continue to demonize Republicans, conservatives, and white people.

  • paperpushermj

    “Whatever else one may think of this president, he’s good with words. Even when that’s all they are – empty, meaningless words”.

    _______________________________________________.
    .
    I can’t say it any better then this

  • proudsouth

    I lay all the mayhem going on today at Obama’s feet. He has proven to be nothing but a hyprocrite and liar; just a big bag of hot air, hell-bent on hate and revenge. Can’t believe this pretender is really president.

  • Switchlight13

    Obama reportedly “upset” over school shooting. Elementry school shooter described as “emotionally crippled” by talking head on Fox. Shooter described as a “20 yr old man” yet “children” who are 26 yrs old can remain on their parents health insurance. The nanny state at work. The emotionally crippled killers laugh at us as we bury our kids. Maybe its better if the enevitable collaspse comes sooner rather then later.

    • Switchlight13

      Update: The usual parade of Shrinks & psychologists on TV already making excuses for the school shooter. Blame everyone & everything but the killer. Expect blame the “guns” next. Predictable outcome.

  • Joel Wischkaemper

    And that, Sir, is characteristic of a Sociopath. Is Obama a Sociopath? We do not know a lot about him and maybe we need to know more. But he seems to be something short of a Sociopath, but far to much like one to be comfortable to many.

    Profile of the Sociopath
    http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

  • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

    It’s ok to think differently but those “thoughts” should be based in some sort of reality and should seek to find a level playing field for ALL Americans. Last time I checked, Walmart, was not an American citizen, it was an American company. We should be fighting for the rights of the American people, not it’s corporations. American corporations have it better than if they did business in any country in the world. BOTTOM LINE… we can do w/o Hostess, but Hostess can’t do w/o us.

  • nickshaw

    The only sad thing, Bernie, is that you are only pointing to one example.

    Zero, himself, has been guilty of using words to inflame violence.

    “Get in their faces”. Huh! Wasn’t that exactly what the union guys were doing in Lansing?

    “If they bring a knife, we bring a gun!” Remember that? Well, they brought knives, didn’t they? Would shooting them then be appropriate?

    The point is though, nearly everything this man says is meaningless! And there is video to prove it.
    Liberals just don’t want to acknowledge it ’cause it would tarnish the image of Dear Leader.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Curt-Parker/1267641897 Curt Parker

    Barry is a thug. And as a former Teamster during the days of the original Jimmy Hoffa, I know thugs when I see them. Pray on your knees every night for this country.

  • Johnny Deadline

    Opponents of this president’s policies believe that words mean things, and Barack Obama’s inspiring rhetoric has never matched his actions. Supporters of the president marvel at his soaring oratory and polished delivery, but never really think about the dichotomy between what he says and what he does – or doesn’t do, as is usually the case. Barack Obama is a poster child for style over substance, a huffing and puffing pettifogger and a walking contradiction.

    • nickshaw

      It’s not just the difference between what he says and then does, or doesn’t do, Johnny.
      It’s the difference between what he says on one day and the exact opposite the next.
      Deficits this large are unpatriotic, for instance.

      • Johnny Deadline

        Heck, I’ve even heard the president contradict himself in the same speech! If the truth ever comes out on Benghazi, Amtrak Joe Biden may be sitting in the Oval Office. Either way, both of them suffer from IFDD – Inattention Fiscal Deficit Disorder. I may need to trademark that term. :)

  • gbandy

    Just like Obama always bragging how much he cares about the middleclass. I guess gas prices doubling under Obama helped the middleclass. Now all the new job killing regulations and the estimated 2 million less jobs will have the middleclass dancing in the streets. So now when Obama says anything it probably is a lie. Unfortunately too many still believe the rhetoric and cannot see the reality of the worst president in History. Forward? Yep right off the cliff.

    • nickshaw

      I believe that’ “Foward”, Gbandy but, I won’t quibble. ;-)

  • floridahank

    Obama has no conscience — he should be embarrassed by the actions of many of his supporters, but he’s not. Obama has a clear agenda for doing away with the American tradition that built this country. If the Founding Fathers were here, they would definitely impeach him immediately. But because we have no politicians who have any resemblence to our Founding Fathers, our nation will have major problems for the next 4 yrs. and the Republicans are not going to oppose Obama and offer any positive suggestions or solutions. Today, we have a one-party system.

  • Melanie M

    Gabby Giffords husband, Mark Kelly, blamed the Teaparty people for shooting his wife. When it turned out the shooter had no political affiliations, he didn’t apologize, nor did he say he anything more about it. Perhaps liberals see themselves as blameless, even when they make grievous errors.

  • tgrfan42069

    the sad part is.people reelected him good job america lol

  • Disgusted

    But he did stick his nose into the Florida Zimmerman/Martin case by claiming that ‘If I had a son, he’d look just like Treyvon’….hmmmm…..

  • SeattleSam

    Wait a minute. You’re just NOW discovering that the President is in favor of civil discourse when it favors his agenda and opposed to it when it doesn’t? Remember this is the same president who opposed gay marriage until he didn’t need to and said that not extending the 2003 tax rate cuts would hurt the economy in 2010 but that in 2013.

    • nickshaw

      Remember, Dims are now yelping that the 2.whatever % tax on medical devices will hurt their constituents while at the same time saying an extra 4.9% on the “rich” ain’t gonna’ hurt anyone.
      Or any number of undisclosed fees and taxes imposed on the “middle class” by ObamaKare are perfectly okay. Not that union members will ever see that increase!

      Or the first bill Zero signed (I think) as president to raise taxes on tobacco? Yeah, that one is aimed straight at the poor who do most of the smoking.

      Weird huh?

  • BrianFruman

    I agree with Obama as an agitator. Posted below. However, he doesn’t see it the way that we do. This type of social justice, guaranteed results our part of his personality and approach. I would like the left to give states a chance to let the people decide as we did in the national election. States do have rights to pass laws and Michigan did so. Violence towards other people union or not is unexceptable . Unions have long outlived their usefulness and made promises they can’t keep. We have regulations galore to protect worker safety and labor laws and public unions can literally vote out the party at the local, state or federal level.

    • nickshaw

      Exactly! All the things unions were supposed to have been formed to do are now taken care of by the law.

      These days they are simply a racket to get members more money for jobs that, more often than not, aren’t worth paying more for by an employer. That money translates into more dues and more power by unions over employers and, perhaps the brass ring, government itself.

  • bobemakk

    Hoffa is just another union thug like his father was. These idiots don’t realize that unemployment is much lower in “right to work” states. Fools, all of them starting with Obama and his disregard for the violence in Michigan when this statement was made and a Fox contributor was punched around for trying to prevent demonstrators from ripping down a tent with elderly people inside. It is a disgusting world we live in and I blame the leaders, Obama first. His re-election was probably rigged.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roscoe-Bonnifitucci/100000459519027 Roscoe Bonnifitucci

    Obama is first and foremost interested in the benefit of…Barack Obama. He is a consummate Liar, Fraud, Phony, Thief and now…complicit in the Murder of the Benghazi State Department personnel

    Where is Mrs. Clinton? She had the Brass Balls to call Obama the Liar he is when running against him. Now, she hides in the shadows and let’s good Americans die without letting the Truth be told! Why? We expect Obama to Lie. That is what he does. Mrs. Clinton seemed to have some small sense of Integrity in the face of the Liar Obama…but now has caved like the coward she appears to be.

    Where is the BIG Mouth from the White House on Benghazi? He should be Impeached and tried for Complicity in the murder of these Americans.

    Which Obama was lying? The author who supposed wrote biographies about his young and narcissistic life? Or the foreign student who said he said he was Indonesian. Or the Senator who said he was Kenyan. Or the Marxist who said he was a Patriotic American who supports the Constitution?

    …or the President who said he told our Military & Espionage Leaders to “do everything possible to help them”…the men under siege in Benghazi.

    Which Obama is the Liar? What’s that you say…ALL OF HIM IS A LIAR! ALL OF HIM IS A TRAITOR.

  • http://twitter.com/susiehouse1 susie house

    I thought Hoffa was buried under Giants Stadium

  • Dave W

    Observing Obama for several years the inescapable conclusion I have reached is that he will say and do whatever is best for him to be elected. He knows where his votes come from and he panders to them at all times. Any guiding principles that he has are secondary in importance to winning votes.
    His number one strength is campaigning. So even after the last presidential election, after which he has no opportunity for another term, he just keeps campaigning anyway. This explains why he stays silent when his supporters are on the wrong side of issues. For him to say anything against them would violate the principle of winning votes even when there are no votes to win.

  • 49corvette

    The man is a “Fence Sitter”—plain and simple—not a great leader in my book—he would like to be a cross between Jerry Lewis and George Washington—question is—will we return to the inflation of 1920’s Germany—No , but—I observe that this long slow path of decline will hit “The Fan” when “The Man Upstairs” has had it with our Stupid Behaviour—My 2cents—Thanx for Reading

  • Vince Calhoun

    Obama, the name will come to mean: “the great deceiver,” because that’s what he does.

  • artlouis

    The unions are filling the role that Hitler’s brown shirts had in the thirties. God help us.

    • Switchlight13

      God only helps those who help themselves. He has no pity on a neo-socialist welfare nanny state such as the USA aka Food Stamp Nation.

      • Joel Wischkaemper

        Calling THIS country a ‘neo-socialist welfare nanny state’ is an injustice. We moved through major economic dislocations rather quickly as the Baby Boom Bulge came through. I lost my shirt on a paper production operation with a huge order base, and again on ENRON. Congress did not see any reason to force those companies to fully reveal what they were doing, and while it appeared to be worth the investment, it wasn’t. The 2008 meltdown took over three trillion dollars of retirement savings out of the pockets of the Baby Bloomers and coming at that point, it created a nation with a lot of very broke retirees.

    • Joel Wischkaemper

      I absolutely do not agree. Unions are abusive, and that speaks to a Congress that cannot do labor laws in a rational manner. And yet, in many countries in the world, there are good labor laws and it would behoove us mightily if we copied some of those laws.

  • venter

    The unions were needed when my mother was 14 working in a sweat shop to help her family . Now the unions have caused prices to go up, companies to close and leave the country and they are nurtureing the division, revenge, racist talk, and anger that is going on our country now. I hope I am wrong but Obama will do nothing, as a former community organizer he understands the unions tactics. Also, because of his background as an organizer he could do a good job ending the violent rhetoric. He is not leading and his empty words will not make him great Presidents .

  • http://twitter.com/SandraHartle FIRE THEM ALL

    He is the reason for the outrage in MI this week, he made a special trip up there, made speeches to stir the pot and now that it is stirred if anyone thinks for a minute he is going to say anything to “his” base, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you. With the Gabby incident he was pretty sure as were all liberals that it was carried out by some right wing nut job, alas they were seriously disappointed to find out the guy was just a nut job, no political affiliations at all.

    O has divided the country, it appears to me and I have been around a while that he is trying to stir up the riots of the 60’s in order to push through his agenda unrestricted by politics. If he can, as they did back then, guilt the right into silence it is a free ride for them all the way to the destruction of our country. You are also old enough to know what I am saying is the truth, this massive guilt trip they have laid on the country is not and never was the doing of conservatives, the deeds done to blacks and all races in the past were done by racist Democrats up to and including eugenics, planned parenthood to reduce minority births, and the forced sterilization of the Indian tribes in the 50’s. All liberal programs. FIGHT BACK enough of this guilt trip crud.

    • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

      I sure has divided the Racists from the Non-Racists, that is for sure.

  • jimmcveigh

    There never was any question that Obama meant not a single word uttered that day. A few days after that speech, Ingraham was on O Reilly, and in response to Bill suggesting that Obama’s words were aimed at the loons on the left to tone down their rhetoric, Laura replied, “you think that Obama was talking to the left?”

    Bill visibly jerked his head back and blinked his eyes, it was obvious that he hadn’t considered that Obama’s comments were aimed at the right (Palin, Limbaugh, the early culprits).

    In other words, Bill wanted to believe the best about Obama, he continued to think of Obama as the blank slate that could be whatever you wanted him to be. Never mind that even early in O’s term there had never been any indication of being anything other than a radical leftist ideologue.

    What is funniest about it all is that Rush had Obama pegged from Day One; O is a guy with a chip on his shoulder about this country and intends to return the nation’s wealth to its “rightful owners,” while the Krauthhamers and Humes and Kristols and O Reillys pretended to be the smartest in the room by giving O the benefit of the doubt, refusing to call a ….shovel a shovel.

    • Bob Hadley

      First, none of us (you, me, Ingraham et al.) know for sure who President Obama was addressing when he ccautioned people against seizing on the Arizona shooting to point fingers at the other side, but it’s highly unlikely that his remarks were directed at the Right. All you need to do is think about it.
      The occassion was a national mourning ceremony over the tragedy. The primary finger-pointers were a FEW liberals, not right-wing bomb-throwers. If President Obama was directing his remarks to the Right, he was woefully sloppy in his presentation. Any reasonable person would think he was refering to the FEW liberals.
      And no, Laura is not reasonable when reacting to President Obama. Her purpose is obviously to lambast President Obama no matter what he does or doesn’t do. She obviously is trying to foment and stir anti-Obama sentiment.

      • Patrick H.

        What makes you think conservatives just want to lambast Obama? You can be a pretty reasonable guy at times, Bob, but sometimes I think you only ascribe the worst motives to conservatives and the best motives to liberals. If you’re an independent non-ideologue, you sometimes do a terrible job at it.

        • Patrick H.

          Let me clarify, what is it that makes you think that conservatives live only to bash Obama for the sake of Obama bashing? Don’t you think at least some of them actually sincerely think that Obama and his policies are wrong and misguided? Like I said, you can be a reasonable guy, but you definitely seem to have a habit of subscribing the worst motives to conservatives and only the best to liberals.

        • Bob hadley

          I hope you read my post immediately above. it pertains to yyou as well. You need to carefully re-read my post. The right-wing bomb throwers have honest disagreements with President Obama, but they go far beyod their honest disagreements. They impugn his motives, his personality and everything else. They sometimes ream him for things Pres. GW Bush did whilee they either remained mute or lambasted Pres. Bush’s critics.

      • jimmcveigh

        When you say any reasonable person would think…. you are proving my point that people paint onto Obama THEIR hopes and dreams and prejudices. If he was indeed referring to MSNBC and Krugman, why didn’t he state their names publicly in order to make it clear that he was fed up with the divisive rhetoric?

        Obama said he wants the discourse to be in a way that heals; what evidence is there that he believes in getting along, in compromising, in not fostering discontent (which is what a community agitator does, after all)?

        When he immediately told the GOP to not listen to Limbaugh because that is not how things get done in DC; when he invited Paul Ryan to a medicare meeting and then proceeded to mock Ryan during his (O’s) remarks; when he told the GOP that ‘I won'; when he told his supporters that voting is the best revenge?

        You might want to reconsider your thinking on the point of fomenting anti Obama sentiment, too. Limbaugh, Ingraham, et al, were just as vociferous in their denunciations of ClintonCare and retroactive tax increases and global warming and McCain-Feingold and amnesty (‘thats right Limbaugh, Comprehensive. Immigration. Reform!’)any other number of liberal issues. It isn’t a race issue, it isn’t a personal issue; they speak out against anyone whom they see as being demonstrably anti-freedom.

        Obama passes that test with flying colors (pun intended: if I had a son he would look like Trevon)…..

        • Bob Hadley

          Where do I begin? I guess, first you need to carefully re-read my post. I did NOT bring race into it. YOU did. Why are you bringing race into this discussion? I’ve acknowledged elsewhere on this website that liberals sometimes shut down dialogue by gratuiotously raising an issue of race.

          I’ve also said elsewhere on this website that there was much the same hate (by, among others, Miss Laura) slung at Pres. Clinton as with President Obama? But you raised Laura imputing certain questionable motives to President Obama. I was addressing what you were addressing.

          Second, given the occasion and wording of Pres. Obama’s speech, the only reasonable interpretations was that his admonishion against finger-pointing and blaming was directed at the FEW liberals who did so. This is esp. so because, at the time of the ceremony, virtually all of the finger-pointing was coming from those liberals.
          Why President Obama didn’t single out offenders by name is a completely diffrent question. Singling out people for criticism at a solemn occasion such as this would have been tacky at best. It would have taken awaty from the solemn purpose of the ceremony and would have changed the focus.

          • jimmcveigh

            You didn’t bring up race; wow, that’s mighty white of you. Either you are supersensitive to a joking reference at the end or else you choose to see race in any innocuous remark.

            Do you think that Obama was aiming his words at the libs who were throwing the bombs or at the targets of those words; Palin, Limbaugh….?

            For further context, is it out of the ordinary for the left to call for censorship of opposing views? Do you think he was asking Krugman to shut up or was he saying that Palin had no business using crosshairs on her website reference to congressional districts?

            If you are so certain that the right is impugning Obama’s motives, then please give us your explanation / interpretation of Obama’s motives and policies.
            What is the motive behind trillion dollar deficits?
            What is the motive behind the Gulf moratorium?
            What is the motive behind ObamaCare?

          • Bob Hadley

            “Either you are supersensitive to a joking reference at the end or else you choose to see race in any innocuous remark.”
            Either you pulled the tactic of saying “Gee, shucks i was only joking” to avoid culpability that you deserve or you carelessly intended a joke as part of a serious reply. Since i don’t know you, I’ll assume the latter. Be more careful next time.

            Yes, I think President Obama was refering to the FEW liberals who targeted Palin and others. Was he refering to Palin’s talk about crosshairs? No, that came long before the Arizona tragedy. Yes a FEW liberals raised that, and Pres. Obama was trying to say that it was inappropriate in the time of the Arizona tragedy.
            As for the right impugning Pres. Obama’s motives, one example is the one you raised of Laura Ingraham implying that Pres. Obama was addressing the Right-wing bomb thrower with his remarks at the Arizona shooting commemoration. Or was Laura Ingraham really joking?

          • Bob Hadley

            “It isn’t a race issue, it isn’t a personal issue; they speak out against anyone whom they see as being demonstrably anti-freedom.”

            In case there’s some confusion, this is the racial reference to which I mainly objected.

      • Chris Matthewson

        “Any reasonable person would think he was referring to the FEW liberals.” True and as further evidenced by the comments herein.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roscoe-Bonnifitucci/100000459519027 Roscoe Bonnifitucci

        Bob, put down your BONG and pick up a History Book. King Obama-Claus is an evil, petulant individual who is narcissistic and molded into the role of Hitler, Stalin and Mao. The only thing standing between America becoming a 3rd World Socialist Crap Hole are regular Americans fighting King Obama-Claus.

        • Bob Hadley

          Isn’t the niternet great? It alows all the crazies to hook-up. Crazies of the world (um er uh, I nation) unite! :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts
      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1423818379 Donna E Turner

        Actually, throughout my disapproval of this President, I have based my opinions on his actions. I have disapproved of most everything he stands for. Bullying religious groups, bullying workers, siding with abortionists who want no limit to their bloodthirstiness, siding with the Dept of Ed and teaching immorality in our schools, ignoring the plight of the young men locked into a criminal mentality that produces the high rate of death with (surprise) illegal guns, bullying us into Obamacare, shall I go on?

  • GPZ550

    Can anyone list even a single instance where Obama’s words meant anything for any longer than it took to finish the speech? There can be no courage of conviction when the president is a nutless preening phony with absolutely no convictions at all.

    • gbandy

      Yes actually I can! “utility rates will necessarily skyrocket”. And they have. Check the prices at the gas pump;

      • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

        Actually, the prices at the pump have gone down… look it up… and are expected to be a permanent change due to Obama’s increase in domestic oil production.

        • gbandy

          Domestic Oil drilling has increase but not on Federal Land it is the private sector drilling and certainly from Obama! Gas was $1.78 under Bush it is well over $3 now some decrease. Also you better check how hard it is to get a FED drilling permit.

        • Joel Wischkaemper

          When any politician want to conceal what they have done about a problem, they don’t tell us what they have done, in part. How did he do that ‘lowering’? What we have in this county in terms of reserve is very small, and couldn’t do much at all in lowering those prices.
          What DID lower the prices was Hurricane Sandy. Another refinery on the west coast was refitted and there is greater production, but the end of the lower prices is clearly in sight. It is not a permanent change.

        • Will Swoboda

          Hey Dave, I bet you work in DC. Let me guess, for one of the federal agencies that have chill bumps running up their legs every time they look at obama.
          Will Swoboda

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YMJUHF4UNZWSLIDRXPSSTOHA3Q Shane

          Gasoline prices are not utilities. Obama meant electricity prices would skyrocket if his policies were adopted. The new pollution guildelines from Obama will increase electricity prices.

        • http://www.facebook.com/walter.mattson.39 Walter Mattson

          Obama stated that he wants all existing energy prices to go up. He wants to eliminate all coal fired power plants. His energy secretary stated that the goal for gasoline and fuel oil is $8 per gallon. He is locked into green energies and has subsidized them in an attempt to make them competitive with gas,oil and coal. I haven’t seen any success in the green energy sector yet. In fact, many are going bankrupt. Some have gone to China in an attempt to lower the costs. Gasoline is still at $3 plus per gallon right now and may go down as the US slips into another recession. Think about this. If gas and fuel oil get as high as the $8 per gallon goal, the economy will suffer so much we can put a fork into it because it will be done. The economy suffers from the existing fuel cost to the tune of $194 billion if gas stays at $3 per gallon. If Obama gets his way and fuel costs reach $8 per gallon the economy will suffer by $1.551 trillion. Those figures are more than any stimulus can make nullify. Does Obama care? The answer is NO. He is a socialist and the sooner he can completely convert the US, the happier he will be.

    • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

      How about when he said he would go into Pakistan to get Osama Bin Laden if need be? I remember that one.

      • Joel Wischkaemper

        Special forces were already there and looking. We spotted him with a satellite, and Obama really had nothing to do with it.

        • Bob Hadley

          This is an excellant example of how those with Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) make up facts to deprive President Obama of any credit. When President Obama took office he re-vitalized the search for Bin Laden. (Remember when President GW Bush said late in his presidency, “I don’t think much about the gentleman”) Bin Laden was never “spotted.”)
          Once his courier was traced to the Bin Laden compound, only Bin Laden’s shadow was seen. At the time, there were real doubts as to whether it was Bin Laden’s shadow. President Obama took an active part in the planning of the raid. He was the one who insisted on a back-up helicopter.
          When decision time came, President Obama’s advisors had differing views as to whether the raid should actually be executed.
          If the raid were a failure and Americans were killed, you and others with ODS would almost certainly blame it all on President Obama.

          • Will Swoboda

            So tell me BOB, now obama is a special forces tactician?

          • Bob Hadley

            Do try hard to misconstrue what others say for your own purposes or does that skill just come naturally to you? You don’t have to be a special forces tactician to take an active part in planning a raid or to give the green light to proceed. Certainly President Obama left the final decision of the important details of the raid to the involved military commanders. But the raid was ultimately his responsibility and he assumed that responsibility. After all, he is the Commander in Chief.

          • Will Swoboda

            With all due respect Bob , you don’t know what you’re talking about. In your post you made it sound as though O was right there on the scene giving expert advice. O just took the opportunity to make himself look presidential but that takes a lot more than admiring fans and a good tailor. Will

            Sent from my iPad

          • Bob hadley

            I said that he took an active part in the planning of the raid. No, he wasn’t in Abbottabad nor was he (as far as I know) at the site where the actual practice took place. But the planning occured at several levels and at various places and over telecommunications and over a period of months.
            Again, at President Obama’s insistence there was a back-up helicopter. As memory serves me, that came in kinda handy.

          • http://twitter.com/twin130 Nelle

            Apparently, Obama is a special forces tactician according to the above post, since “he was the one who insisted on a back-up helicopter”. Which implies that the highly trained Seal team neglected to think of this. Too bad our Commander-in-Chief didn’t insist on a plan to rescue the Americans in Benghazi who stood on a roof for 8 hours fighting for their lives, waiting for help that never came.

          • Will Swoboda

            Your right Nelle. Couldn’t said it better myself.
            Will Swoboda

            Sent from my iPad

          • Bob Hadley

            OK, I get it: if a fact is politically incorrect then it suddenly becomes a fiction. Either President Obama was the one who wanted a back-up helicopter or he wasn’t. It’s a statement of fact. It’s either true or it’s not true. That it may contradict some notion you have is not relevant.
            Credible reports are that, 10 days before execution, PresidentObama urged that there be backup helicopters in Pakistani airspace in the event that that the special ops had to fight their way out of the compound and the immediately surrounding area.
            If you have information to the contrary, please share. Don’t just utter politically correct nonsense.

        • Bob Hadley

          BTW, there was no concerted search for BIN Laden in or around Abbottabad before his courier was traced.

      • GPZ550

        Yes, after George Bush’s initiatives to locate OBL were successful, Obama had to be talked into approving the action, against the advice of his domin atr trix, Valerie. She wanted him to wait until closer to the election to build his numbers. It is the Chicago way and the administration’s modus operandi to use absolutely everything to a political advantage, with every other consideration trailing far behind. Thus, Benghazi.

        • Bob Hadley

          If you have to make things up to support your predisposition, then it’s past time to examine your disposition.
          President Obama wasn’t talked into the raid. His advisors (including military) were split on whether to execute the raid or strike the compound with a drone missle or even to wait further
          The final decision was his and his alone.

          And yes, intelligence wrung from KSM during President GW Bush’s term helped locate Bin Laden. But you’re in denial
          that President GW Bush let falter the effort to locate Bin Laden. It was President Obama who reinvigorated the program.

          • GPZ550

            So…which is it? Is it a disposition or a predisposition? You have me down for both. Isn’t there just as much pausity of proof for your assertion as mine?

          • Bob Hadley

            A predisposition is a type of disposition. You look at certain issues with a predisposition. But, when not looking at any of those issues, it’s more accuate to generally call it a disposition. :)
            You evaded the issue. You just made things up in your post above, didn’t you? If not, where did you get them? I got my facts from multiple news sources that do not have an ax to grind and are not viewing news reporting as a business.
            BTW, where did you get the info about Valerie Jarret recommending that Pres. Obama wait until election season to get Bin Laden. I know you wouldn’t be so irresponsible as to make that statement unless it came from a reliable source. Anyway, if Jarret was thinking politically, she might have wanted President Obama to order the raid sooner rather than later, because the raid might have been a flop or, worse still, a fiasco.

    • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

      got any concrete examples or just Roger Ailes memo card trivia?

  • Dominic

    Obama says a lot of things and means none of it.He is the full of S–T president.He has his secret agenda and will let nothing slow it down.If he ever articulated what he really wants to do he never would have been elected in the first place.Its the national media that cannot see through his masterful deception.His allies give him cover and are his personal goon squad.Together these Liberal goons and media are allowing an incompetent president to cause great damage to our country.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Leo-Dial/100000360471418 Leo Dial

    All the query about what allowed Obama to win should be shelved to make way for a simple and obvious answer. ” He lied the media sanctioned his lies and more than 50 percent believed his lies”.

  • Patrick H.

    That’s politicians for you, it’s always about the words rather than the substance behind them and I must say President Obama is one of the best politicians ever. And no, that is a compliment to him.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Leo-Dial/100000360471418 Leo Dial

      It seems that complement is supposed to sanction the manipulation of the public and the dirty dealings they engage in. Funny how when Republicans engage the same tactics they are call dishonest,

      • Patrick H.

        Oops my bad, I meant to say “And no, that is not a compliment to him”. Anyway, to be fair Republicans are rightly called dishonest when they engage in those tactics, that’s not the problem. The problem is Democrats seem to slide under the radar easier because they claim to have the moral high ground which will always win people to your cause whether or not that is true.

  • Switchlight13

    The people spoke on Nov 6th. They made their bed now let them lay down with the Democrat vermin and union thugs. “We have met the enemy and he is us”…..Pogo

    • bobemakk

      Obama is the “alpha and the omega.”

      • criolle

        Obama is the “Alfalfa” and the Omega.

        • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

          This racial post will be reported.

          • criolle

            A racist is anyone who disagrees with a liberal.
            Evidently you are not familiar with the concept of the “Alfalfa Male”. As opposed to the Red Meat “Alpha Male”, the “Alfalfa Male” is a vegan who uses substitutes for the real … ANYTHING.
            Bill Clinton was an Alfalfa Male. Instead of playing football at 6″4″ tall, he joined the band.
            The Obamanation in the Oval Office is an Alfalfa Male.
            Call that racism if it pleases you. Nothing resembling logic could change your mind.

          • criolle
          • criolle

            … often vegetarian/vegans and great fans of poetry. Usually are environmentalists.

    • Ron1

      Sad but true. We have to lay in bed with them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

      Yep, and so far, unemployment has gone down and the stock market has doubled under Obama… New home sales have increased… etc… Sounds like we are headed in the right direction to me.

      • jimmcveigh

        You are a fool, a brainless partisan troll fool.

        The stock market has doubled but the value of the dollar has been halved, so what kind of gorilla math do you use to come to the conclusion that the nation is better off?

        • Bob Hadley

          Are you really saying we’ve had 100% inflation over the last 4 years???????????? It seems that you were looking in the mirror when you came up with all the name-calling.
          BTW, our economy was in free-fall when President Obama was sworn in.

          • jimmcveigh

            It is indeed odd that the unprecedented money creation hasn’t shown up in the general price level, but there can be no denying that the dollar’s value has been eroded dramatically in the past 4 years (a process which started when the idiot Nixon closed the gold window).

            On one segment of O Reilly earlier this year when he was on his jihad about “oil speculators,” Morris quickly and correctly pointed out that the price of a gallon of gas has not budged in terms of gold or silver, ie, real value.

            As for the chesnut about the economy falling off a cliff when O was sworn in…d’uh! For someone who talks like they understand the stock market’s value, you of all people should know that the market is a forward pricing mechanism, which is to say that the job numbers fell off a cliff after Obama won the election because employers wanted to pull in their horns to the greatest extent they could just to preserve their own existence and the easiest quickest way to do that is to get rid of labor costs.

            I would be interested to hear your explanation of why Costso’s guys borrowed $3 billion in order to pay themselves a dividend before the anticipated dividend tax increase kicks in, not to mention the flurry of other business sales and capital gains realizations ahead of the tax increases…..

          • Bob Hadley

            The economic callapse began well before then-canddate Obama was elected. The economy really began to degenerate in Sept, ’08. You bend yourself like a pretzel just to blame everything on President Obama. Can’t you see that this degrades yourself more than anyone else. I keep wondering when one of the rabid Obama haters is going to claim that President Obama was the second shooter on the grassy knoll.

          • jimmcveigh

            Please re read my previous post, where I referred to the idiot Nixon, a Republican. I am intellectually consistent in viewing government in general with skepticism, not just one party.

            People respond to incentives, whether they are upcoming tax changes or low interest rates luring them into homes they cannot afford, or even going further, by having the government entice people into home ownership in the first place by having a mortgage interest deduction.

            Here in Canada, we had no such economic or financial collapse because we dont’ have a thriving race industry that protests “redlining” of mortgage loans and being comminitarily organized to occupying bank offices so that loans will be made to people who have no business buying when all they can afford it to rent. Nor did our financial or regulatory bodies lower downpayment standards to the point where the buyer had no skin in the game (no money down mortgages, interest only mortgages, etc), and we don’t have non recourse loans, where the buyer can just walk away and then it is the bank’s problem.

          • http://www.facebook.com/walter.mattson.39 Walter Mattson

            Manufacturers do not pull in their horns just because a democrat or a republican is elected. They begin pulling in their horns whenever sales start to decrease. It is demand that governs the equation. Wake up and learn something about how capitalism works. I will admit that 2013 is a little different in that many small businesses are afraid to expand until they can understand the full implications of Obamacare. I think you are going to see plenty of this hesitation for much of 2013. So save your money. You are going to need it as 2013 moves forward.

      • Bob From Virginia

        Unemployment has gone down because people are leaving the work force and the government is responsible for 73% of the new hires in the last four months, with throw away jobs like fast foods making up the rest. the real unemployment rate is considerably higher.

  • http://apostrophejones.com/ Gloves L. Donahue

    Obama is an agitator. He’s never been a leader.
    To him, if you don’t do what he says, you’re “the enemy.”
    He’s a no-class guy and a class warrior and he failed spectacularly in his first term.
    The MSM covered for him and defended him and they have to keep it up.
    It’ll be one outrage after another for four long years and the Dems own it.

    • ljm4

      I don’t understand why folks didn’t see his BS. Just the sight of him sauntering out on the national stage for the first time made the hair rise on the back of my neck. That was all I needed. When he was elected I closed my business. I saw this eviI sob comin’.

      • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

        Ya, right. You just closed your business because you would rather enter the work force than run your own company…. Whatever, if your company closed, it’s because you didn’t run it well. Don’t blame others for your mistakes and failures.

        • will swoboda

          Hey Dave, why not, the democrats blame others for all of their failures.
          Will Swoboda

          • Bob From Virginia

            I know know well educated people who voted for Obama, but their education was in academics, not real world situations. They never ran a business or served in the military. They can function only in a very restricted and protected environment. What you should be looking at is not education but affluence in youth, that delays maturity. Obama’s elections are a result of an immature electorate, one that cannot distinguish the fashionable from the vital.

          • Bob Hadley

            A lot of veterans and current military personnel voted for President Obama. A lot of business people also voted for president Obama. I have a business and I voted for President Obama. I think your post reflects an immature and prejudiced mind-set.

          • wesallfooked

            Obama has been great for my business – I sell guns.

          • Bob Hadley

            Yes, you’re making money from a lot of crazies who are convinced Pres. Obama will take away their gun rights and all their other freedoms.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            “failures”…big catchwrd from the RNC workshop. Ok, name one FAILURE of Obama. Then let’s compare with Bush II’s and Reagan’s…hehehe

        • paperpushermj

          Dave most of those who voted for obama can’t tell you what a president does. His Campaign was an ad campaign, instead of shoes or cereal people where sold Barack Obama.

          • Bob Hadley

            “Dave most of those who voted for obama can’t tell you what a president does.”

            How many of the more than 60 million people who voted for President Obama do you know well enough to know that they can’t say what a president does? Judging from your post, it seems that you know more than 30 million of them. In the alternative, which national poll supports your statement?

          • paperpushermj

            Try asking some. I think you will be shocked.

          • Bob Hadley

            For the record, you evaded my questions. I think your inartful evasion answered my questions however.

            I know a lot of people who voted for President Obama who are well-educated and mature, much too mature to make sweeping generalizations about Romney supporters.

            How many Obama voters have you asked what a president does? What answers did they give? If you did ask any, I bet a lot of them saw right through your pretentiousness and gave you sarcastic answers.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            only have to ask the leader of the Tea party! she couldn’t explain to kids what a Vice President does and said Africa is a country. very well informed. Or ask Allan West, the reincarnatrion of Joseph Mccarthy. or the average Fox viewer. or channel Breitbart.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            ask ANY Tea Partier and/or Foxnews viewer if Africa is a continent or country. YOU’D be surprised!

          • paperpushermj

            Yes that is correct

          • Bob Hadley

            What is correct?

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            heard of the scholarly study which found that Fox viewers were, by far, the LEAST informed of TV-“talking head” watchers?

          • Bob from virginia

            Really, who ran the poll? We all know the results were established and the final report written before the first question was asked.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            look it up.

          • paperpushermj

            Yes look it up . You will find it in the “What Liberals think of Republicans” section.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            a New Jersey University. possibly with some other scholarly assistance.

          • John Daly

            lol at the “scholarly study”.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            why?

          • Brian_Bayless

            All political campaigns are like that. What is your point besides the fact you dislike Obama

          • paperpushermj

            With you Libs it’s about the person well here’s a flash, I don’t know obama well enough to make it about him. I don’t like what he has done, his policies and in general how he has handled the position he holds. If you would stop fawning over him like he was some rock star you to might take a real good look and see the results of his actions. The recession ended in the first quarter of 09, are you happy with where we are coming up on 4 years of obamas leadership? Whole generations of people either not fit for the workplace because they’re not getting the experience necessary for new workers or no jobs for older workers now giving up looking and accepting that they are retired against their will, bowing to the reality their’s no work for them. That’s what I see that makes me think obama has been a failed president.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            really? policies of Obama? GOP policies are all about corp. raiding and outsourcing and manufactured wars and rejection of good infrastructure bills. bluecollar doesn’t stand a chance with Boehner and his Tea parties.

        • Trappedincalifornia

          No Dave, he closed his biz because he knew Obama is anti biz and he didn’t want to lose everything he’s worked for just trying to keep it going till Obama is gone and folks can get jobs again and have some $ to spend. I owned a biz in San Francisco. Where is your biz Dave? Tell us all about it, if you even know what a profit and loss statement even is!

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            Obama anti-biz? he gave tax relief to small employers 18 times. restored GM and Chrysler. AHCA will yield 4 million new jobs.

      • Joel Wischkaemper

        He covered his position well in my opinion. We have had many politicians who have done that of late.

        • wesallfooked

          Why do you say or feel that? Are you a union thug too? Or just a person who wants their elected government to do what they don’t have the balls to do for themselves: rob people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/1984sAmerica Dave Counts

      The only class warfare is coming from the top down, my friend.

    • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

      explain exactly HOW he’s an agitator. :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

      class warrior because he wants to return to the Gingrich-Clinton 39.6%?

      • EddieD_Boston

        But what liberals like you don’t get is raising taxes on rich people will do nothing to help the economy. Nothing. If you were was smart as you obviously think you are you’d understand we have a spending problem, which is getting worse b/c of our retiring baby-boomers and a liberal-created underclass having children I support through my tax dollars.
        Increasing tax rates to the Clinton Era rates will fund the government for a month.

        Get it now?

        • Brian_Bayless

          Raising taxes also has never proved to be the cause for businesses to not invest or been related to job losses. It won’t single-handedly fix everything but it will not hurt at all. It’s needed at this time.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            you said it…and said it simply and clearly. returning to the successful 39.6% will mean tax relief for families on their first 250k!

          • paperpushermj

            Will we return also to the Total Spending to Earning ratio as well.
            It seems you have swallowed the progressive spin hook line and sinker that our problems derive from the rich not paying enough and are incapable of hearing from the other side that the problem is that Washington derives too much power to itself from the spending of money.

          • paperpushermj

            I bet you think pig can fly too. Try and out flank one of the oldest axioms about taxes if you can. “When taxes are raised on a goods or service you get less when taxes are lowered you get more”. That is basic econ 101 but you seem to live in one of those parallel dimensions we hear so much about

          • Bob Hadley

            I bet you’ve never taken an economics course in your life, or at least have paid attention if did take one. There’s a point when raising taxes become oppressive and the law of diminishing returns kicks in (as far as raising tax revenue). And there’s a point when lowering oppressive taxes triggers the law of dimisishing returns (as far as economic growth).

            The fact that a lot of American money is invested or deposited overseas tes the analysis.

            Whether or not taxes should be raised and, if so, which taxes are to be raisedand by how much depends on a myriad of factors.

            But to say that lowering taxes always results in increased revenues and economic growth is stupid.

          • paperpushermj

            Yes it’s called the Laffer Curve but you like so many are myopic you look only at the income tax as though it was not part of the whole revenue stream flowing into Federal, State,County,City and even special tax districts that have a accumulative effect on the Wealthy that they are being drained dry.

            Now about your claim that lowering the tax burden not always increasing revenues and economic growth and being stupid.

            Well it’s worked every time its tried, unlike Keynesian that would be delagated to the ash heap save for one thing.. it commands politicians to spend money in copious quanities.

          • Bob Hadley

            “Well it’s worked every time its tried, unlike Keynesian that would be delagated to the ash heap save for one thing.. it commands politicians to spend money in copious quanities.”
            This doesn’t make sense. If politicians want more money to spend and lowering taxes always results in more revenue, then politicians would always favor lowering taxes. Pres. Reagan found out in a hurry that lowering taxes is not necessarily how you raise tax revenue. That’s one reason why he raised taxes so many times after lowering them.

          • paperpushermj

            Bob when you ever figure out what drives politicians and politics get back to me. Hint : It’s patronage

          • Bob Hadley

            Why do you change the subject?

          • paperpushermj

            Because you show a naiveté as to how the real work works.

            “This doesn’t make sense. If politicians want more money to spend and lowering taxes always results in more revenue, then politicians would always favor lowering taxes”.

          • Bob Hadley

            You don’t seem to grasp what I’m saying. You indicate, on the one hand, that politicians love having lots of moola to spend on their various constituencies and donors. On the other hand, you indicate that politicians would have more moola to spend if only they’d lower taxes, again and again and again.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            sure, the super rich are being “punished”
            – can’t find a good offshore account these days.

          • http://www.facebook.com/paperpushermj Matthew Jacobs

            That is a flip comment that shows you have no Idea what’s going on. Trust me people with that kind of Money have legions of ideas thrown at them. Their job then is to weed out which path or paths to take.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            say what?? :) been listening to Coast To Coast?

          • http://www.facebook.com/paperpushermj Matthew Jacobs

            Nothing to respond to

        • Bob Hadley

          You’re attacking a straw man. As far as i know, no one says that we can simply tax our way out of the deficit and debt. And if you completely halt any and all gov. payments to the so-called underclass, we would still have a massive budget problem.

          Former Republican Sen. Alan Simpson, a member of one of our buget commissions, said that all the experts the commission interviewed said that we cannot simply grow our way out of the budget problems even if we have double digit growth. They also said that we can’t simply cut our way out of the looming financial crisis. And yes, they also said that we cannot simply tax our way out.

          Conclusion? It must be an all-sided approach. Throw ideology out the window and work on solutions. Our first need is to spur growth and wise investments in our economy. Then we need to wisely raise revenue AND wisely curtail spending.

          Pres. Clinton has some good ideas in his book “Back to Work.”

          • paperpushermj

            Bob what you dream of requires back bone and that is in short supply in Washington. Politicians of all stripes hate making decisions especially ones that carry their own fingerprints. That’s why the favorite game there is …kick the can.

          • Bob Hadley

            You’re right to a large extent, but this particular discussion is academic or theorectical. We were not discussing what the politicians are likely to do or not do.

        • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

          how come it helped create a surplus before? Ok..fine, there’s not enuff rich guys to make a diff. >>>so we should never tax them because it does not completely erase the debt?

          • paperpushermj

            The already pay taxes We shouldn’t over tax them because it’s not fair. It’s not your money that’s why.

          • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

            how is going back to 39.6% overtaxing? or should we deny tax relief to 98% because of that theory?

          • http://www.facebook.com/paperpushermj Matthew Jacobs

            Because the Federal Income tax should not be looked at as a stand alone tax. Come march when the “Wealthy” are walking out of the meeting with their Accountants they might have a different view of their tax burden then you. The next meeting will cover how best to abrogate these taxes, should the “Wealthy person move to States with no State income Tax like Texas? Should they change their investment portfolio to no tax municipal Bonds, away from investing in high risk high tech startups.? So less Whales out there for Start up business to finance their first years like Apple. Should they invest a high percentage of income overseas ?

        • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

          contributing towards debt reduction DOES NOT HELP? I find the GOP trick here (all due respect to U) is to keep saying 39.6% won’t “SOLVE” anything. It’s not about Solve. It’s about contributing, yes sacrificing for the debt,across economic lines. The middle has always contributed and sacrificed – payed off the loopholes for the super rich.

        • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

          what do you mean “help”? you mean completely eradicate the debt which ofcourse it CAN’T do. Even Romney wanted to change the tax code and address the deduction sof the super rich.

    • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

      yeah, we own it: no more denial of cancer patients because of precondition. rescue of autos..nothing. Are you an O’Reilly *premium* member? :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/phil.silverman.9 Phil Silverman

      Explain how politely asking for a return to 39.6% makes him a class warrior? Explain how he “failed” in his first term? Restoring the USA to the #1 auto producer; getting through health reform so Ameriacns able and willing to pay for their own healthcare and with a precondition can now get coverage?; getting Bin Laden (no, enhanced interr. had zero to do with it). Creditcard reform. ending Cheney’s manufactured war. ok, now…explain. (add: creating a decent # of jobs despite the GOP war on the bluecollar workforce).

  • http://twitter.com/48HDpanhead 1948 HD-panhead

    Extremely well written analysis!