My heart sank as I watched the event unfold. I'm certainly a Trump supporter but I cannot honestly defend what transpired. This appears to have been a well planned ambush on Zelenskyy. Nothing has been said by the Trump administration regarding any compromises or assurances by Putin. I bet there are none. So, all of the pressure by Trump is focused on Zelenskyy because Trump and Vance know they can exert their force on him and get away with it where Putin would tell them to take a hike. Yes, we've been generous to Ukraine, and that can be debated by cooler heads but that doesn't mean we should abandon decency when dealing with an Allie. The name calling (Zelenskyy is a dictator) and falsehoods (Ukraine started the war) by Trump prior to the meeting must have certainly cut Zelenskyy to the core. I can't image the stress he has endured being at war and watching his people die and cities get destroyed by a vicious aggressor. I'm not saying he's done everything right, but no one does. I think the awful spectacle that unfolded damaged Trumps claims as the ultimate negotiator and his ego got bruised. I can only imagine what kind of talk and posturing comes next.
I watch some Fox News programs but I find I need to pick the ones that make an attempt to be fair and professional, not the ones populated by the usual Trump toadies (for entertainment value). Otherwise, I find myself in my own echo chamber and that's not being fair minded. In the case of this event in the White House, there was actual gleeful celebrating at Fox of the "smackdown" on Zelenskyy. Agree or disagree with Zelenskyy and what has transpired in the previous administration, I thought I could count on us conservatives to be the intelligent adults in the room. Perhaps those days are gone.
Conservative no longer means conserving liberties, the constitution, institutions etc. Conservative now means worship of Trump and anyone who Trump himself likes in that specific moment. It’s such an embarrassment what the right has become
That's indeed become many Trump-enthusiasts' understanding of conservatism, Ed (and why they're so comfortable calling people like you and me "liberals").
I'm also very much pro-Constitution and fervently believe in our basic institutions. I also favor America taking a strong and positive posture abroad.
If you've read my posts, you know I'm a liberal. In no way do I surrender the above values to conservatives. Moreover, the national Democratic Party is becoming increasing outspoken in these values. The national Republican Party increasingly less so.
Roger, if you manage to find any Fox programs that "make an attempt to be fair and professional", please let us know, but I think those days are long over. Looking for "intelligent adults in the room" on Fox these days is like looking for a virgin in a brothel.
I honestly don't know which is the worse option. Whether this was a planned ambush, or Trump just lost his mind on live TV. Or both, I guess that's possible too. Sigh.
I been a couple times invited to meetings, ostensibly to work through some conflicts, only to show up and be grossly outnumbered and in an ambush. This was classic Trump Art of the Deal bullying when he thinks he has leverage.
The only way he is "allowing his people to die" is by not surrendering to Putin. If you don't think the USA should send support to Ukraine, that is one thing that fair minded people could debate. If you think Zelensky is not perfect, fair enough - he's not. But I honestly don't see how any rational, clear thinking person could have watched that atrocity on live TV today, and not been embarrassed as an American.
"allowing" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement. If Russia didn't invade Ukraine in the first place, no one would be dying. Maybe that's too basic for you to understand.
I'm interested to know what the pretense was for Zelenskyy to even accept this opportunity in the first place? It's obvious a 'deal' was never agreed to behind the scenes beforehand, so why even show up unless it was to sign an MOU or something equivalent?
Looks like he was lured there by a malicious administration intent on ridiculing him in front of a worldwide audience. Zelenskyy doesn't have a polished media team or competent advisory group that could have seen this coming, and he got burned as a result by a bunch of frat-boy jack-asses like it was an episode of Punk'd.
One thing that's more than evident today is this: Trump is terrible at negotiations. It will be a miracle if the war in Ukraine is resolved in Trump's tier term, but if it is, it won't be due to Trump's abilities.
Zelinskyy is being treated like a 10 year old. His concerns over some type of security for his country is being ignored, and pushed aside. A 'band -aid' to the Russian threat going forward is a huge concern, rightfully so. Trump will be gone in 4 yrs, what is stopping Putin to move again? Nothing. Not good. Europe doesn't have their 'shit' together, and the US (Trump) will not have an interest in protecting Ukraine, only in protecting US interests in Ukraine. That's a tough decision for Zelenskyy. No real protections for his people is a hard pill to swallow I believe.
Zelensky would have been well-advised to follow Macron's example: excessively flatter Putin, I mean Pres. Trump - the MAGAites would be titillated but keener minds would see the mockery - and then inject words about security guarantees and gently correct Pres. Trump's misstatements. He should have been properly prepared to effectively field or to ignore press questions directing him into confrontation.
I'm not condoning Pres. Trump's or VP Vance's bullying, but sometimes the primrose path is optimal.
That's because it's still being made. First, I trust that Putin must have something on Trump as he isn't lost on words mocking anyone on earth, accept Putin. That's confusing.
I have been a big supporter of the Ukraine, but I am losing patience with Zelensky. He can go to Europe for hugs, praise, and sing Kumbaya with their leaders as well as get a few loans but that's it. He seems to need that "Hero" image which at first, I respected. He cannot win this war and certainly not just with Europe. He will not get the necessary war materials from Europe including defense systems and Javelin missiles to name a few. If Europe commits to several hundred billion dollars alone and purchases the necessary war materials from the US, perhaps he can push the Russians out of his territory. But Europe won't. News Nation had a great interview this morning of a Ukrainian politician who neither criticized Trump and Zelensky or praised them. He simply implied the importance that a solution will only come from the US. So perhaps it's time Zelensky resign instead of getting his ego served in Europe.
Zelensky has supposedly offered to resign if necessary to secure a meaningful ceasefire, and you bring up an important point - this really isn't about Zelensky at all - it's about unchecked Russian aggression on the European continent, and what the West can and should do to block it. All the talk about how much money we gave Ukraine is largely a distraction, but the maga crowd has gone all in with it. Did Reagan stop the pressure on the Soviet Union because it was too expensive? He won the Cold War without firing a shot, but did so by projecting strength and not kowtowing to a Russian dictator.
John, this centered around a "Security Guarantee". The Budapest Memorandum does not provide a security guarantee but "Security Assurances" which is far different. I had to watch the interview in full and it appears to me that Zelensky was looking for a Security Guarantee that no president in the past 20 years gave him nor will he get that out of the EU with all the kissing and hugging. Trump tried to avoid that discussion and that's when it heated up. I can't stand Trump's mouth, and I know Putin is a ruthless dictator. That's not the point. If any members and moderators here can let me know when Zelensky obtains his EU Security Agreement let me know. It is not happening!
About Ukraine joining NATO.
"But Bush didn’t garner support from key allies, including France, Germany and others, The New York Times reported, amid fears the decision would inflame tensions with Russia. And indeed, Putin — still serving in his first stint as president — and other Russians at the time lashed out against the idea that either country might move closer to NATO.", https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html
A logical solution is a joint mineral agreement whereby American interests would be on the ground in the Ukraine. America has a habit and history of protecting assets.
Zelinsky needs to resign, or, the European leaders need to straighten him out and quit the kissing and hugs.
I have to use voice on my cell phone. I have a Tremor in my right hand. I am right handed. When I dictate to my phone, it chooses what I said differently when I send it. I have to live with that.
He was a good man, but he's sold his soul to the devil now. You could almost forgive a uniformed person who just marinates in FNC all day believing all of Trump's BS, but Rubio is a smart guy and KNOWS better. He sold out to advance his career. But is it really worth it to be SoS when you can't look at yourself in the mirror in the morning?
My heart sank as I watched the event unfold. I'm certainly a Trump supporter but I cannot honestly defend what transpired. This appears to have been a well planned ambush on Zelenskyy. Nothing has been said by the Trump administration regarding any compromises or assurances by Putin. I bet there are none. So, all of the pressure by Trump is focused on Zelenskyy because Trump and Vance know they can exert their force on him and get away with it where Putin would tell them to take a hike. Yes, we've been generous to Ukraine, and that can be debated by cooler heads but that doesn't mean we should abandon decency when dealing with an Allie. The name calling (Zelenskyy is a dictator) and falsehoods (Ukraine started the war) by Trump prior to the meeting must have certainly cut Zelenskyy to the core. I can't image the stress he has endured being at war and watching his people die and cities get destroyed by a vicious aggressor. I'm not saying he's done everything right, but no one does. I think the awful spectacle that unfolded damaged Trumps claims as the ultimate negotiator and his ego got bruised. I can only imagine what kind of talk and posturing comes next.
I watch some Fox News programs but I find I need to pick the ones that make an attempt to be fair and professional, not the ones populated by the usual Trump toadies (for entertainment value). Otherwise, I find myself in my own echo chamber and that's not being fair minded. In the case of this event in the White House, there was actual gleeful celebrating at Fox of the "smackdown" on Zelenskyy. Agree or disagree with Zelenskyy and what has transpired in the previous administration, I thought I could count on us conservatives to be the intelligent adults in the room. Perhaps those days are gone.
Well stated, Roger.
Conservative no longer means conserving liberties, the constitution, institutions etc. Conservative now means worship of Trump and anyone who Trump himself likes in that specific moment. It’s such an embarrassment what the right has become
That's indeed become many Trump-enthusiasts' understanding of conservatism, Ed (and why they're so comfortable calling people like you and me "liberals").
But I'm not ready to surrender the term to them.
I'm also very much pro-Constitution and fervently believe in our basic institutions. I also favor America taking a strong and positive posture abroad.
If you've read my posts, you know I'm a liberal. In no way do I surrender the above values to conservatives. Moreover, the national Democratic Party is becoming increasing outspoken in these values. The national Republican Party increasingly less so.
Roger, if you manage to find any Fox programs that "make an attempt to be fair and professional", please let us know, but I think those days are long over. Looking for "intelligent adults in the room" on Fox these days is like looking for a virgin in a brothel.
C'mon John, your Hawaiian bias is showing friend. FNC's hard news like Special Report is straight up and down as is Fox News At Night.
The rest of the lineup is pretty much toadying to the administration and ccan be avoided. LiveNOW from Fox is also good because it's raw reporting.
Hawaiian bias?? lol - I wish! Can't afford to live in HI... I did used to like SR back in the day when Charles K was on.
Sorry, must have got you mixed up with another guy.
You're thinking of Bob H.
Indeed I am! Thanks for the reminder. Hi @bobhadley166467 from 21 hours into the future! But I'm only 10 hours away by plane. ;)
I honestly don't know which is the worse option. Whether this was a planned ambush, or Trump just lost his mind on live TV. Or both, I guess that's possible too. Sigh.
I been a couple times invited to meetings, ostensibly to work through some conflicts, only to show up and be grossly outnumbered and in an ambush. This was classic Trump Art of the Deal bullying when he thinks he has leverage.
Couldn't disagree more, Zelensky is an idiot and is allowing his people to die. Trump acted how I have seen many executives act in the boardroom.
Allowing his people to die?
Amazing.
The only way he is "allowing his people to die" is by not surrendering to Putin. If you don't think the USA should send support to Ukraine, that is one thing that fair minded people could debate. If you think Zelensky is not perfect, fair enough - he's not. But I honestly don't see how any rational, clear thinking person could have watched that atrocity on live TV today, and not been embarrassed as an American.
"allowing" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in your statement. If Russia didn't invade Ukraine in the first place, no one would be dying. Maybe that's too basic for you to understand.
David, what a narrow-minded viewpoint. Allowing?? Where is your 'critical thinking' skills? Or maybe your IQ?
Agreed! Shameful is an understatement.
If Rubio had a shred of dignity, he’d resign.
He surrendered his dignity some time ago.
Case in point: https://x.com/SecRubio/status/1895554419305091087
I'm interested to know what the pretense was for Zelenskyy to even accept this opportunity in the first place? It's obvious a 'deal' was never agreed to behind the scenes beforehand, so why even show up unless it was to sign an MOU or something equivalent?
Looks like he was lured there by a malicious administration intent on ridiculing him in front of a worldwide audience. Zelenskyy doesn't have a polished media team or competent advisory group that could have seen this coming, and he got burned as a result by a bunch of frat-boy jack-asses like it was an episode of Punk'd.
I bet he won't be doing that again.
One thing that's more than evident today is this: Trump is terrible at negotiations. It will be a miracle if the war in Ukraine is resolved in Trump's tier term, but if it is, it won't be due to Trump's abilities.
Putin is an evil weasel, he'll stay in power til he kicks the bucket.
Rubio's facial expressions tells his feelings, and he's not happy! His total body language is so apparent, as to his feelings and disgust.
Zelinskyy is being treated like a 10 year old. His concerns over some type of security for his country is being ignored, and pushed aside. A 'band -aid' to the Russian threat going forward is a huge concern, rightfully so. Trump will be gone in 4 yrs, what is stopping Putin to move again? Nothing. Not good. Europe doesn't have their 'shit' together, and the US (Trump) will not have an interest in protecting Ukraine, only in protecting US interests in Ukraine. That's a tough decision for Zelenskyy. No real protections for his people is a hard pill to swallow I believe.
Zelensky would have been well-advised to follow Macron's example: excessively flatter Putin, I mean Pres. Trump - the MAGAites would be titillated but keener minds would see the mockery - and then inject words about security guarantees and gently correct Pres. Trump's misstatements. He should have been properly prepared to effectively field or to ignore press questions directing him into confrontation.
I'm not condoning Pres. Trump's or VP Vance's bullying, but sometimes the primrose path is optimal.
Yes, Pres Zelenskyy acted very ill -prepared, I was very surprised he had no tactful plan of verbiage.
The world just saw how sausage is made.
Except no sausage was produced.
Agreed. Heated arguments of course happen behind the scenes in such talks, but this was Trump and Vance performing for the cameras.
That's because it's still being made. First, I trust that Putin must have something on Trump as he isn't lost on words mocking anyone on earth, accept Putin. That's confusing.
I have been a big supporter of the Ukraine, but I am losing patience with Zelensky. He can go to Europe for hugs, praise, and sing Kumbaya with their leaders as well as get a few loans but that's it. He seems to need that "Hero" image which at first, I respected. He cannot win this war and certainly not just with Europe. He will not get the necessary war materials from Europe including defense systems and Javelin missiles to name a few. If Europe commits to several hundred billion dollars alone and purchases the necessary war materials from the US, perhaps he can push the Russians out of his territory. But Europe won't. News Nation had a great interview this morning of a Ukrainian politician who neither criticized Trump and Zelensky or praised them. He simply implied the importance that a solution will only come from the US. So perhaps it's time Zelensky resign instead of getting his ego served in Europe.
Zelensky has supposedly offered to resign if necessary to secure a meaningful ceasefire, and you bring up an important point - this really isn't about Zelensky at all - it's about unchecked Russian aggression on the European continent, and what the West can and should do to block it. All the talk about how much money we gave Ukraine is largely a distraction, but the maga crowd has gone all in with it. Did Reagan stop the pressure on the Soviet Union because it was too expensive? He won the Cold War without firing a shot, but did so by projecting strength and not kowtowing to a Russian dictator.
John, this centered around a "Security Guarantee". The Budapest Memorandum does not provide a security guarantee but "Security Assurances" which is far different. I had to watch the interview in full and it appears to me that Zelensky was looking for a Security Guarantee that no president in the past 20 years gave him nor will he get that out of the EU with all the kissing and hugging. Trump tried to avoid that discussion and that's when it heated up. I can't stand Trump's mouth, and I know Putin is a ruthless dictator. That's not the point. If any members and moderators here can let me know when Zelensky obtains his EU Security Agreement let me know. It is not happening!
About Ukraine joining NATO.
"But Bush didn’t garner support from key allies, including France, Germany and others, The New York Times reported, amid fears the decision would inflame tensions with Russia. And indeed, Putin — still serving in his first stint as president — and other Russians at the time lashed out against the idea that either country might move closer to NATO.", https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/world/europe/03nato.html
A logical solution is a joint mineral agreement whereby American interests would be on the ground in the Ukraine. America has a habit and history of protecting assets.
Zelinsky needs to resign, or, the European leaders need to straighten him out and quit the kissing and hugs.
John Dale does not know the full history of a transpired with Ukraine and the countries let go by Russian the Russian regime.
Can you rephrase that so it makes sense?
I have to use voice on my cell phone. I have a Tremor in my right hand. I am right handed. When I dictate to my phone, it chooses what I said differently when I send it. I have to live with that.
I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for explaining.
John,Conrad seems to have a problem with communicating effectively.
Your Anti Trumpo Tds garbage is foaming from the mouth nonsense. You would be better served spewing on MSM. Sad, very sad.
Just once it would be great if you could specifically point out what you think is unfair or untrue in the column you are responding to.
This MAGA Tourettes stuff doesn't advance anything.
I really think he's a Bob the Bot spinoff....
Sounds like Big Zak has had one too many cappuccino lates and has some anger management issues. Could be a cry for help?
I was totally thrown off guard when Trump offered Rubio this job. Go figure.
Rubio figures he can do some good, before Trump kicks him to the curb; he has nothing to lose, but the job. His career isn't over. He's a good man.
He was a good man, but he's sold his soul to the devil now. You could almost forgive a uniformed person who just marinates in FNC all day believing all of Trump's BS, but Rubio is a smart guy and KNOWS better. He sold out to advance his career. But is it really worth it to be SoS when you can't look at yourself in the mirror in the morning?