My thoughts exactly, but I can't seem to put cogent thoughts together nearly as well as you do. There are those who don't care that it was a BS local DA doing this... to them it's all Dem Commies.
Don't want to speak for Guy & certainly not Bernie, but...
Isn't it entirely possible this case was just the tipping point & the actual concern is, in a much larger context, the weaponization of Courts against political opponents?
I think if one's going to cast a wide net like that, you need to present more than the actions of a lone Manhattan D.A. I don't see evidence of weaponization in the other indictments. I see mostly straight-forward interpretations of existing law. I suppose it's possible that could change as the cases begin, but I have no reason to assume it will.
And again, Trump's outright promising to use the system to go after his political opponents. As president, he tried to get his Justice Department to allege crimes that didn't exist so he could stay in power. People who are worried about political weaponization should be worried about Trump.
Yea I'm troubled about him but I've been troubled by the other side since Nixon. If Trump goes to jail and wins, who's the last leader of a country that happened too
I think the chance of Trump going to prison is extremely small, and there's even less of a chance of it happening from this particular conviction (the least serious felony crimes of all that's facing).
But it's worth remembering that Republican voters and GOP leaders have been well aware of Trump's legal gauntlet for some time, and decided to go all-in on him as their nominee anyway (instead of supporting a law-abiding primary candidate who didn't try to overturn the last election, didn't steal and refuse to give back classified documents, didn't falsify financial records to cover up a porn-star payoff, and was polling double-digits over Joe Biden). So, if you want someone to blame for this uncharted territory, shouldn't Trump (who's running at least in part to pardon himself) and those who've effectively nominated him be near the top of that list?
I'm with you on the 6 th and secret docs but not this one. I can't defend Trump and I don't like the other choices we have. If you ask me and I know you're not they all are a threat to democracy.
>>I'm with you on the 6 th and secret docs but not this one.
Actually, I think you ARE with me on this one. I agree that the NY case shouldn't have been brought.
>>If you ask me and I know you're not they all are a threat to democracy.
I addressed "threat to democracy" point a few weeks ago in the Q&A:
"At this point, both sides are indiscriminately throwing that phrase back and forth at each other, thus effectively rendering it useless (which was the point for some of these people). Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever used the phrase (because of how ambiguous it is), but my view is that election fraud (illegally tampering with the voting process) is unacceptable… as is trying to cancel the certified results of an election because you didn’t like the outcome. As far as I’m concerned, anyone guilty of either should face serious consequences including never be allowed to serve in public office. Such things are a far cry from besmirching a candidate, which is by no means a 'threat to democracy.'"
I don't have many good things to say about Joe Biden, but if loses in November, I'm extremely confident he won't do what Trump did when he lost (or anything close to it). So, I think casting both sides as a comparable threat to our constitutional and democratic order is simply wrong.
John- Initially, I thought this lawsuit was all about local politics & Bragg. However, what changed my thinking was when Colangelo, the #3 person at DOJ, moved to Bragg’s office to become the lead prosecutor on the Trump case. Every prominent lawyer that I’ve seen has said the move was not a step up and very unusual. My thinking now is that once Bragg filed the lawsuit (without any involvement of the Biden admin), it was then that the Biden admin decided to send one of their top prosecutors to lead the case and maximize the possibility of conviction. Garland recently refused to give the House copies of all correspondence between DOJ and Bragg relating to Colangelo’s move. It’s not proof but don’t you find Colangelo’s move curious? Also, I think many people like me believe that Democrats (not necessarily Biden) have weaponized the judicial system and this has caused my support for Trump to increase.
I won't be voting in November. For President, there is no choice. For my local state elections, it's a waste of time. But don't you think John, that Benson and Caroll might have a slightly different view if Biden represented a more traditional Democrat of let's say 40 years ago? He'd win by a land slide.
I'm of the position of Bernie. Maybe for different reasons, but I have Biden's existing presidential record clearly in my mind.
>>I won't be voting in November. For President, there is no choice.
You're not writing me in on your ballot?
>>But don't you think John, that Benson and Caroll might have a slightly different view if Biden represented a more traditional Democrat of let's say 40 years ago? He'd win by a land slide.
Only, they're saying that the specific reason they would vote for Trump, for the first time ever, is the New York case... which has nothing to do with Biden.
I think you are correct John, in that most of the vows of support for Trump in the wake of this verdict are knee-jerk reactions from people who were likely going to vote for him anyway. This just gives them another talking point to justify their position. As Bernie often says, a lot can and will happen between now and November, so I feel like this verdict will be baked into the cake, and not move the needle much in either direction come November.
That's my take as well. If someone was still open to voting for Trump (after all he's done) prior to him being convicted, it's hard to fathom why they still wouldn't be open to voting for him now. And vice versa. As you say, it's all baked into the cake at this point.
My thoughts exactly, but I can't seem to put cogent thoughts together nearly as well as you do. There are those who don't care that it was a BS local DA doing this... to them it's all Dem Commies.
Thanks Rick. Yeah, I've been politically homeless for so long that my partisan reflexives are pretty much non-existent and this point.
// the actions of Alvin Bragg
Don't want to speak for Guy & certainly not Bernie, but...
Isn't it entirely possible this case was just the tipping point & the actual concern is, in a much larger context, the weaponization of Courts against political opponents?
I think if one's going to cast a wide net like that, you need to present more than the actions of a lone Manhattan D.A. I don't see evidence of weaponization in the other indictments. I see mostly straight-forward interpretations of existing law. I suppose it's possible that could change as the cases begin, but I have no reason to assume it will.
And again, Trump's outright promising to use the system to go after his political opponents. As president, he tried to get his Justice Department to allege crimes that didn't exist so he could stay in power. People who are worried about political weaponization should be worried about Trump.
Yea I'm troubled about him but I've been troubled by the other side since Nixon. If Trump goes to jail and wins, who's the last leader of a country that happened too
I think the chance of Trump going to prison is extremely small, and there's even less of a chance of it happening from this particular conviction (the least serious felony crimes of all that's facing).
But it's worth remembering that Republican voters and GOP leaders have been well aware of Trump's legal gauntlet for some time, and decided to go all-in on him as their nominee anyway (instead of supporting a law-abiding primary candidate who didn't try to overturn the last election, didn't steal and refuse to give back classified documents, didn't falsify financial records to cover up a porn-star payoff, and was polling double-digits over Joe Biden). So, if you want someone to blame for this uncharted territory, shouldn't Trump (who's running at least in part to pardon himself) and those who've effectively nominated him be near the top of that list?
I'm with you on the 6 th and secret docs but not this one. I can't defend Trump and I don't like the other choices we have. If you ask me and I know you're not they all are a threat to democracy.
>>I'm with you on the 6 th and secret docs but not this one.
Actually, I think you ARE with me on this one. I agree that the NY case shouldn't have been brought.
>>If you ask me and I know you're not they all are a threat to democracy.
I addressed "threat to democracy" point a few weeks ago in the Q&A:
"At this point, both sides are indiscriminately throwing that phrase back and forth at each other, thus effectively rendering it useless (which was the point for some of these people). Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever used the phrase (because of how ambiguous it is), but my view is that election fraud (illegally tampering with the voting process) is unacceptable… as is trying to cancel the certified results of an election because you didn’t like the outcome. As far as I’m concerned, anyone guilty of either should face serious consequences including never be allowed to serve in public office. Such things are a far cry from besmirching a candidate, which is by no means a 'threat to democracy.'"
I don't have many good things to say about Joe Biden, but if loses in November, I'm extremely confident he won't do what Trump did when he lost (or anything close to it). So, I think casting both sides as a comparable threat to our constitutional and democratic order is simply wrong.
John- Initially, I thought this lawsuit was all about local politics & Bragg. However, what changed my thinking was when Colangelo, the #3 person at DOJ, moved to Bragg’s office to become the lead prosecutor on the Trump case. Every prominent lawyer that I’ve seen has said the move was not a step up and very unusual. My thinking now is that once Bragg filed the lawsuit (without any involvement of the Biden admin), it was then that the Biden admin decided to send one of their top prosecutors to lead the case and maximize the possibility of conviction. Garland recently refused to give the House copies of all correspondence between DOJ and Bragg relating to Colangelo’s move. It’s not proof but don’t you find Colangelo’s move curious? Also, I think many people like me believe that Democrats (not necessarily Biden) have weaponized the judicial system and this has caused my support for Trump to increase.
I won't be voting in November. For President, there is no choice. For my local state elections, it's a waste of time. But don't you think John, that Benson and Caroll might have a slightly different view if Biden represented a more traditional Democrat of let's say 40 years ago? He'd win by a land slide.
I'm of the position of Bernie. Maybe for different reasons, but I have Biden's existing presidential record clearly in my mind.
>>I won't be voting in November. For President, there is no choice.
You're not writing me in on your ballot?
>>But don't you think John, that Benson and Caroll might have a slightly different view if Biden represented a more traditional Democrat of let's say 40 years ago? He'd win by a land slide.
Only, they're saying that the specific reason they would vote for Trump, for the first time ever, is the New York case... which has nothing to do with Biden.
"You're not writing me in on your ballot?"
You would definitely be the smart choice!!
I think you are correct John, in that most of the vows of support for Trump in the wake of this verdict are knee-jerk reactions from people who were likely going to vote for him anyway. This just gives them another talking point to justify their position. As Bernie often says, a lot can and will happen between now and November, so I feel like this verdict will be baked into the cake, and not move the needle much in either direction come November.
That's my take as well. If someone was still open to voting for Trump (after all he's done) prior to him being convicted, it's hard to fathom why they still wouldn't be open to voting for him now. And vice versa. As you say, it's all baked into the cake at this point.